5 on 5

The Canadiens struggled badly last season with their 5 on 5 play.

Early signs indicate they will continue that trend this year.

The Canadiens have scored 10 goals thus far and only 5 have been even strength goals. Ranking them 28th out the 30 teams.
Only Columbus and Chicago ranking lower.

Unless they can count on their special teams to be one of the league’s best, and get excellent goaltending all season long – the numbers suggest they’ll have a hard time making the playoffs. Again.

What can the Habs do to improve their even strength play?

Or having once again not signed or traded for a legitimate scorer or scorers, keep them in the basement of even strength scoring?

Are the Habs just not offensively gifted enough or is it more of a coaching issue?

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#1 Jaker1 says:
October 15, 2007 at 11:00 am

Most 5 on 5 goals are usually a result of a deflection or the goalie can’t see the puck. Montreal cycles well down low but it seems to me that its always a three man cycle . The way to have success is a rotating two man cycle with one man in front of the net causing havoc on a possible point shot. Right now it seems to me that no one wants to get their hands dirty. You have to challenge the other teams “D” . If you play with fear the goalies will know that 5 on 5 they will see most pucks.

#2 nilan says:
October 15, 2007 at 11:28 am

Interesting. I think the only line I’ve seen truly forecheck is the Begin line. The PP line with Kovalev does, but that isn’t 5 on 5 is it? I think the defensive system Carbonneau has in place places a low priority on the forecheck, so breakaways and tips/deflections will be the majority of 5 on 5 scoring. If you guys have watched any of the other games, we are the only NE team that doesn’t seem to crash the net much. Watch what Ottawa does thursday for example.

#3 DTD says:
October 15, 2007 at 12:33 pm

I have RDS and I have watched all the games so far. From what I have seen The Habs are getting their fair share of scoring chances. But can’t put it in the net. They are missing the net, can’t get the puck up…..Etc…..

Now Carbo can’t coach for beans. He could not teach a Dog to Sit….Enough said about that…….

#4 Aurel1 says:
October 15, 2007 at 3:27 pm

I have to agree with DTD that the Habs had lots of scoring opportunities, especially in the third period, but could not put them in the net. A lack of size, especially in front of the net, seems to be the problem. Latendresse should be filling this role. Also, is Kostopoulos the best the Habs could come up with. I see that Lapierre has already three goals with the Bulldogs.

#5 habsfreak says:
October 15, 2007 at 4:19 pm

lapeire leads the AHL with 8 points(4-4-8).

#6 groundworking says:
October 15, 2007 at 7:31 pm

I don’t think it’s a coaching issue, I think it’s a chemistry issue between the top players. Koivu, Ryder and Higgins do not play well with Kovalev–Kovalev does, however, play well with Plekanec, but Plekanec isn’t a big goal scorer. As for the new guys with some flash, they’re just not skilled enough yet to play with Kovalev. Kovalev is looking like the player he can be so far this year, but he’s not a “system player” and he’s more of a creative, on-the-fly talented type (an “east-west” player, rather than a “north-south” player, to use Carbo’s expression). That makes him very hard to utilize to his maximum effectiveness without a top-rate skill player or two on his line. We don’t have that (with the sole exception of Markov).

Also, it looks like my (our) prediction re: Latendresse is one step closer to coming true. We’ll see how he responds to Carbo’s criticisms in this article:
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?articleid=340181&page=NewsPage&service=page

I noticed that he’s had a few good shifts the last couple of games, so maybe he’s coming around from the sophomore jinx. We’ll see.

As it stands on the goal scoring front, though, I think our problem is simply that we only have 2 players with first-line NHL skill (Kovalev and Markov), and Kovalev’s effort/health hasn’t been a problem so far this year. What has been a problem, though, is that he doesn’t have someone that really complements his skill and creativity (even though Plekanec picks up for some of his slack in the defensive end).

So about 2 million of his 4.5 million salary is wasted even when he plays well.

#7 Rubberman says:
October 15, 2007 at 8:35 pm

Coaching is an issue. Carbo is learning as he’s going along. That’s not good enough right now. THink about it, the Habs aren’t coming off great seasons, or have an easy team to coach (meaning superstars that do their jobs and makes the coach look good). I doubt that Carbonneau will get fired but that’s one of many problems. INEXPERIENCE and the NHL is not a place to learn the ropes. Send Carbo down to the Bulldogs!

I don’t care if the team is rebuilding, they can still trade Huet, Ryder and whoever else for LeCavalier. The Habs have some untouchables (eg Price, Higgins, Komaserik(?)) but everyone else is worthy as tradebait. If you can’t land a big name free agent, trade for one.

And, if that’s the plan, rebuilding from within, say it to the fans.

I’m a very frustrated Habs fan. For me personally, the last 4 years have been painful. Gainey seems desperate during the summer. The media blows things out of proportion: makes stars out of average players: Latendress & Lapierre. Je suis canadien-franÃ§ais aussi but get some BIG CANADIANS BOYS who are willing to hit, go to the net, take one for the team, drop the gloves when need be. Look past the Quebec border, western boys play hard. The HAbs are dead in the water with this line up.

Sorry, done bitching…

#8 jack hab says:
October 16, 2007 at 1:00 am

The only way I can see this current team (and system) succeeding is by a total group
effort every single minute of every single game. Good luck on that.
Obviously, this team lacks grit in the opponent’s end and scoring touch badly,
but I’d like to deal with the current roster.
On the positive side there have been flashes of brilliance, and some great hockey.
But with this team it seems that no lead is safe, and if they are down by a pair or more
they seem to get disoriented. So the only logical answer is for the team to outwork
opponents and really focus on the basics – like forgetting the fancy passes on the
man advantage and fire more shots at the net.
Every team has to deal with injury, sickness and bad calls. Some can rise above, others
can’t. It’s early and hopefully this team can play well enough to win on most occasions.

Looking forward to tonight’s tilt with Florida – let’s send them packing without a W!

#9 chevy4CH says:
October 16, 2007 at 9:21 am

we can’t beat the upper echilon teams, because they out talent us. So We’ll have to be content to beat Boston,Florida, and maybe Atlanta. We’re not beating Ottawa, NYR, NJ,TB,Buff,Tor,Carolina,(fluke win opening night),phil,and Pitt(not again). So, unless Gainey decides to make a trade and get more scoring, we’re dead in the water, AGAIN!!
Aren’t you guys getting tired of this broken record year after year after year,……forever!!! I personally have had enough!!
Bring on an experienced coach, one who doesn’t play musical lines every 2 minutes. How can you get any chemistry when the coach doesn’t give you enough time to ESTABLISH CHEMISTRY? And without a PP, and not scoring 5 on 5, WE’RE DEAD! We will end up DEAD LAST IN SCORING! you guys know it, because there isn’t enough talent on this team to score, and win consistently!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that’s the reality of it!

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Avatar37 : pressure playing in Montreal, since he has problems with the expectations in Washington and Montreal isn't any easier. Then again, the media were very easy on Kovalev, so maybe it's a Russian thing? No idea. Anyway, yeah, it would have to be an established star that gives us an immediate drastic upgrade at forward, that's the only way I'd trade PK, because we'd be giving up a potential QB on our blueline for the next decade.
Avatar37 : Goalie - Sure, the only player I'd say who is untradeable (meaning I wouldn't trade no matter what) is Carey Price. You build a winning team from the net out, and I don't think there's a better goalie for his age in the NHL than Price, so I wouldn't trade him. Otherwise, every player would be open for offers, but for PK Subban, it would take (for me) an already established star, like Carter or Crosby or Ovechkin. As much as I like Ovechkin, I'm not sure he could handle all the media pre
goalie : I'm not suggesting at all that we judst dump or get rid of PK. I do however believe that he is a very valued commodity in the NHL adn that the Habs will receive offers for his services. If someone ffers us young, strong, puck handling forwards who can score, I think the Habs have to look at that possible trade.
Avatar37 : Agreed. It would be a big mistake to trade PK just to move up 2 spots in the draft. PK, Emelin, and Gorges are the bright future of our defense.
Senet1 : I am with you Avatar, Subban stays, it is not often that you get a stud defenceman who can play 25+ minutes. The mistakes he makes are for the most part not that serious and people forget he is only 23 and been in the league 2 years. He has come a long way in those two years. He has offense, defence and he hits. You cannot bet much better than that. Two more years experience and he has a shot at the Norris. If Markov does anything I hope he teaches PK how to work the PP.
Avatar37 : «link»
Avatar37 : go.
Avatar37 : round exit. Heck, even the year they won the cup we almost took them out in round 1. I believe in the corps of this team, I really think we just need a few tweaks. Adding Larry Robinson to run the defense would be a BIG help, keep Cunneyworth as offensive coach, and get a head coach who can get these guys back on the right path. We need to establish an identity again, a team that won't let itself be pushed around like it was under Martin. A few scrappers on this team and we'll be good to
Avatar37 : Yeah, the only way I'd trade PK is if we were getting an established star in return, like Carter or Crosby. I don't think we're miles away from competing deep into the playoffs, the NHL has become so competitive because of the salary cap that really there aren't huge differences between the teams. Add into the equation the stupid scoring system (some games worth 2 points, some 3) that the standings don't truly reflect where teams should really be. Look at Boston, cup winners to first rou
Senet1 : It would have to be something pretty special before I would trade PK. To me he is the #1 building block of our defence. I would trade any other defenceman we have before I would trade PK.
Senet1 : An improvement in our offense and strengthening our defence. Personally, I do not think we are that far off, five players at best could get us there. One thing that has always been true about the playoffs, Defence wins and you need a strong 3rd and 4th line.
goalie : I'm more optimistic now about the Habs than I have been for the past three dreadfully long seasons!
goalie : 2: I think GM Bergevin will make somewhat of a 'blockbuster't rade either before or on the day of the draft adn I believe PK Subban will be in that package. WE have t rememebr we have to give away some talent to get back other talent. No one wants players like Moen to move up in the draft etc.
goalie : Some thoughts:The more I see the playoffs it becomes even more obvious that we're miles away from being able to 'compete' dep into the playoffs
Avatar37 : «link»
Senet1 : Young Subban might also be an option if the Russian goalie is not available. However, to me I would wait another year and attempt to use my draft 2nd round draft picks to improve out forward situation.
Senet1 : Although Rinne contact is another example of long term at the wrong time. He is 29 years old. A case could be made with Price that double his money now with bonuses if we win the cup, I think that is still allowed in contracts?
Senet1 : Problem is he is going to want Pekka Rinne money and term. That is closer to 7M. On the other hand, the contract could have step up clauses in it over the 7 years.
Avatar37 : With Price, I wouldn't blink twice about offering him a 7 year contract now, especially if he'd be willing to give up dollar value for length. 7 years at $5.5 million a year would be just fine in my book.
Avatar37 : I think the goaltending void in our current system would push me to draft Vasilevski with our second pick, if he was available. He's young and has lots of potential, but is at least 5-6 years away from starting to be ready to play on an NHL roster.
Senet1 : Long tern contracts are a risk, but if you have a super star not as much. Luongo's contract was long term but signed too late in his career.
Avatar37 : Senet - Yes, you were clear in your post, my question was directed at goalie. I'm with you in that I'd be willing to sign him to a 7 year contract. I'd be nervous about anything longer, because every single long term goalie contract I can think of turned out to be a disaster for the team signing it.
Senet1 : I think that Budaj is a better goalie than many give him credit for, is he a Price no but with a tight defence he could be a good goalie. Many teams have average goalies but have great defence and still win. Look at Detroit, for years they have had average goaltending, but won cups. Goalies can get on a roll in the playoffs, look at Huet as an example, he was not really a good goalie but played great in the playoffs, next year he was a wash. Defence makes the goalie a winner, just ask Price.
Senet1 : Having a young equivalent goalie in the system right now is not important, three years from now it will be, so we have three years to make that kind of move in the draft. I think we have more pressing needs aat the moment.
Senet1 : Personally, I do not see this as a negative because of Price's age, you wait to draft a goalie of a Patrick Roy or Brodeur some teams wait a life time. To me we have on so why would we want to not play that out for as long as we can. Bottom line is this, regardless, right now you have a stud goalie, you are either going to pay him the money he deserves for not sign him and lose him. There is no middle of the road here.
goalie : Avatar made a great point. We don't have an NHL or up adn coming NHL goalies in our system. Another great move by Gauthier. Price is sitting very pretty.
goalie : WEll Price has us by the nads. I guess I'd have to go as far as a 7 year contract due to his play adn his age.
Senet1 : Luongo is now 33, he has been a good goaltender for a number of years. I would sign Price for 7 years and at age 31 then we deal with UFA at that time. Hopefully, we could provide him with another 5 years at that time. That is my opinion anyway, I would never risk losing him as a UFA at this point in his career to me that would be a very poor management decision. Even a 10 year contract would put him only at 34 years old. If you are going to sign him to long term now is the time.
Senet1 : If you have a young stud you have to gamble a little and give him a contract that is worthy of his abilities and his potential. It can have escalation clauses or reducing clauses like Kovalchuk's contract.
Senet1 : Avatar, I thought I was clear Yes I would sign him long term. My previous post said. The problem is if you have a out in the contract after 5 years then the player also has an out after 5 years. So no self respected lawyer would accept a contract that did not have equal escape clauses. So no I would not sign only for 5 years, if Price was 28 years old yes but not a 24. Seven years still only makes him 31 when the contract is over. If you have a young stud you have to gamble a little and give him
Avatar37 : Cammalleri trade. Given the fact that we have no NHL starting quality goaltenders in the system currently, aren't we held hostage to having to sign Price?
Avatar37 : There are many bad goalie contracts, just look at Huet. However, your post didn't answer my question as to what you'd do with Price. He's an RFA now, but for argument sake, if he were a UFA, what would you do? If he wanted a 7+ year contract, you know some other team would give him one. Would you risk losing him for nothing because you didn't want to sign a contract over 5 years? And if we lose Price, our goalies are Budaj and Robert Mayer, as we sent Karri Ramo to the Flames in the Cam
goalie : .. a 5 years contract again based upon the experience he has had AND he likes Bobby Lou!
goalie : Ditto for Philly, Ther goaltender 'situations' have both become the number 1 story line for both teams, and in Vancouver one could see the exaspiration on Gillis' adn to some extent Vigneault's faces when continously being bombarded by the loooong term contract that the Canucks are stuct with. (Gillis even said last February or so, thank goodness it looks like more than few other teams will be looking for a starting goaltender for 2012-13. He said he would never again do more than a 5 year c
goalie : I've spent the past four winters in BC thus I am very aware of the Canucks situations. I'd first say I give Gillis adn Vigneault 100% credit for being VERY supportive of Roberto L. even when Corey Schenider has vastly out played him. (I too like Bobby Lou but facts are facts).