5 on 5

The Canadiens struggled badly last season with their 5 on 5 play.

Early signs indicate they will continue that trend this year.

The Canadiens have scored 10 goals thus far and only 5 have been even strength goals. Ranking them 28th out the 30 teams.
Only Columbus and Chicago ranking lower.

Unless they can count on their special teams to be one of the league’s best, and get excellent goaltending all season long – the numbers suggest they’ll have a hard time making the playoffs. Again.

What can the Habs do to improve their even strength play?

Or having once again not signed or traded for a legitimate scorer or scorers, keep them in the basement of even strength scoring?

Are the Habs just not offensively gifted enough or is it more of a coaching issue?

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10 Comments

#1 Jaker1 says:
October 15, 2007 at 11:00 am

Most 5 on 5 goals are usually a result of a deflection or the goalie can’t see the puck. Montreal cycles well down low but it seems to me that its always a three man cycle . The way to have success is a rotating two man cycle with one man in front of the net causing havoc on a possible point shot. Right now it seems to me that no one wants to get their hands dirty. You have to challenge the other teams “D” . If you play with fear the goalies will know that 5 on 5 they will see most pucks.

#2 nilan says:
October 15, 2007 at 11:28 am

Interesting. I think the only line I’ve seen truly forecheck is the Begin line. The PP line with Kovalev does, but that isn’t 5 on 5 is it? I think the defensive system Carbonneau has in place places a low priority on the forecheck, so breakaways and tips/deflections will be the majority of 5 on 5 scoring. If you guys have watched any of the other games, we are the only NE team that doesn’t seem to crash the net much. Watch what Ottawa does thursday for example.

#3 DTD says:
October 15, 2007 at 12:33 pm

I have RDS and I have watched all the games so far. From what I have seen The Habs are getting their fair share of scoring chances. But can’t put it in the net. They are missing the net, can’t get the puck up…..Etc…..

Now Carbo can’t coach for beans. He could not teach a Dog to Sit….Enough said about that…….

#4 Aurel1 says:
October 15, 2007 at 3:27 pm

I have to agree with DTD that the Habs had lots of scoring opportunities, especially in the third period, but could not put them in the net. A lack of size, especially in front of the net, seems to be the problem. Latendresse should be filling this role. Also, is Kostopoulos the best the Habs could come up with. I see that Lapierre has already three goals with the Bulldogs.

#5 habsfreak says:
October 15, 2007 at 4:19 pm

lapeire leads the AHL with 8 points(4-4-8).

#6 groundworking says:
October 15, 2007 at 7:31 pm

I don’t think it’s a coaching issue, I think it’s a chemistry issue between the top players. Koivu, Ryder and Higgins do not play well with Kovalev–Kovalev does, however, play well with Plekanec, but Plekanec isn’t a big goal scorer. As for the new guys with some flash, they’re just not skilled enough yet to play with Kovalev. Kovalev is looking like the player he can be so far this year, but he’s not a “system player” and he’s more of a creative, on-the-fly talented type (an “east-west” player, rather than a “north-south” player, to use Carbo’s expression). That makes him very hard to utilize to his maximum effectiveness without a top-rate skill player or two on his line. We don’t have that (with the sole exception of Markov).

Also, it looks like my (our) prediction re: Latendresse is one step closer to coming true. We’ll see how he responds to Carbo’s criticisms in this article:
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?articleid=340181&page=NewsPage&service=page

I noticed that he’s had a few good shifts the last couple of games, so maybe he’s coming around from the sophomore jinx. We’ll see.

As it stands on the goal scoring front, though, I think our problem is simply that we only have 2 players with first-line NHL skill (Kovalev and Markov), and Kovalev’s effort/health hasn’t been a problem so far this year. What has been a problem, though, is that he doesn’t have someone that really complements his skill and creativity (even though Plekanec picks up for some of his slack in the defensive end).

So about 2 million of his 4.5 million salary is wasted even when he plays well.

#7 Rubberman says:
October 15, 2007 at 8:35 pm

Coaching is an issue. Carbo is learning as he’s going along. That’s not good enough right now. THink about it, the Habs aren’t coming off great seasons, or have an easy team to coach (meaning superstars that do their jobs and makes the coach look good). I doubt that Carbonneau will get fired but that’s one of many problems. INEXPERIENCE and the NHL is not a place to learn the ropes. Send Carbo down to the Bulldogs!

I don’t care if the team is rebuilding, they can still trade Huet, Ryder and whoever else for LeCavalier. The Habs have some untouchables (eg Price, Higgins, Komaserik(?)) but everyone else is worthy as tradebait. If you can’t land a big name free agent, trade for one.

And, if that’s the plan, rebuilding from within, say it to the fans.

I’m a very frustrated Habs fan. For me personally, the last 4 years have been painful. Gainey seems desperate during the summer. The media blows things out of proportion: makes stars out of average players: Latendress & Lapierre. Je suis canadien-franÃ§ais aussi but get some BIG CANADIANS BOYS who are willing to hit, go to the net, take one for the team, drop the gloves when need be. Look past the Quebec border, western boys play hard. The HAbs are dead in the water with this line up.

Sorry, done bitching…

#8 jack hab says:
October 16, 2007 at 1:00 am

The only way I can see this current team (and system) succeeding is by a total group
effort every single minute of every single game. Good luck on that.
Obviously, this team lacks grit in the opponent’s end and scoring touch badly,
but I’d like to deal with the current roster.
On the positive side there have been flashes of brilliance, and some great hockey.
But with this team it seems that no lead is safe, and if they are down by a pair or more
they seem to get disoriented. So the only logical answer is for the team to outwork
opponents and really focus on the basics – like forgetting the fancy passes on the
man advantage and fire more shots at the net.
Every team has to deal with injury, sickness and bad calls. Some can rise above, others
can’t. It’s early and hopefully this team can play well enough to win on most occasions.

Looking forward to tonight’s tilt with Florida – let’s send them packing without a W!

#9 chevy4CH says:
October 16, 2007 at 9:21 am

we can’t beat the upper echilon teams, because they out talent us. So We’ll have to be content to beat Boston,Florida, and maybe Atlanta. We’re not beating Ottawa, NYR, NJ,TB,Buff,Tor,Carolina,(fluke win opening night),phil,and Pitt(not again). So, unless Gainey decides to make a trade and get more scoring, we’re dead in the water, AGAIN!!
Aren’t you guys getting tired of this broken record year after year after year,……forever!!! I personally have had enough!!
Bring on an experienced coach, one who doesn’t play musical lines every 2 minutes. How can you get any chemistry when the coach doesn’t give you enough time to ESTABLISH CHEMISTRY? And without a PP, and not scoring 5 on 5, WE’RE DEAD! We will end up DEAD LAST IN SCORING! you guys know it, because there isn’t enough talent on this team to score, and win consistently!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that’s the reality of it!

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goalie : I can't type.... what a faux pas on my behalf...
goalie : I just realized what I said adn didn't say yesterday. What a fayx as on my behalf. Regarding coaching Randy Cunnyworth MUSDT stay as an assistant- he deserves at least that after the tremendous job he did in the latter part of this past season. I'd still mlike to have Robinson, Carbo adn Allard on the staff also.
Avatar37 : I agree Senet, my choice if we can't have Cunneyworth would be Crawford, Robinson on defense, Cunneyworth for offense, and Carbo as offense/faceoffs .
Senet1 : I think if I had my choice it would be Crawford and see if he could get Carbo and Robinson as assistants. That would be my idea coaching team.
goalie : I witnesed Marc Crawford MANY times when the Avs, etc. played against Oilers and let me tell you - he is constantly on the referees asses virtually game after game. He is the complete OPPOSITE of J. Martin. Crawford is calm on TSN but he is one excited coach behind the bench. A friend of mine who was an NHL linesman for 26 years said they dreaded Crawford he was so tough on the officials!
goalie : You know, I've bee thinking about the coaching situation. I'd be really excited if the Habs had Hartley as head coach and Carbo adn Robinson as his assistants. I also read it somewhere about a month ago that Toronto's goalie coach Allard (?) wants to relocate back to Montreal where he has his goaltending school/business. Add him to the mix and I'd say the Habs would be in great shape coaching wise.
Avatar37 : Well, from what I recall, Hartley didn't do all that well with the Thrashers. But, I don't know enough about him to judge one way or the other. Crawford I do know, and he always seemed to be a good, level headed coach to me.
Senet1 : even Pacioretty two years ago did not impress any of us. Younger players have to play and make mistakes and learn from those mistakes. If they sit in the press box they are learning nothing.
Senet1 : Of course if he have some good assistants like a Larry Robinson to teach the young defence and someone like Carbo to teach faceoffs etc. then your coach does not have to be as good at teaching. If Hartley fits the bill you get no argument from me. My only previous point is that if he is impatient with your younger players to the point that he does not play them, then we are right back where we were with Martin. Martin was a good coach too, but how he handled Emelin, PK and even Pacioretty two
goalie : I would like to see the Habs sign a coach who realizes that our team isn't tough enough (we need to get bigger and somewhat more nastier),the coach needs t be a great TEACHER and be a coach who can get the players to understand and buy into his system. Other than that I couldn't care what lingo he speaks. I wnat to see our team become a ligitimate contender fast!
HabsLoseAgain : Well we dont know if he is or is not a teaching coach. I woukd just hate to paint Hartley something that he is not. There will always be questions but if Hartley was hired as the habs new bench boss i for one would not be overly upset.
Senet1 : My thoughts are not that he is or is not a good coach but rather that when he won the cup he had an experience team of superstars on that team. Where as we have a group of young inexperienced players, is he a teaching coach or a tactical coach or both? I am not question whether he is a good coach, but my question therefore is he the coach for us at this point in the deveopment of our team?? Not sure we are all purely speculating at the moment?
Senet1 : Something happened to my first post. I will try again.
Senet1 : That is why I said I am not sure he is the coach for us at this time? Right now we are all speculating including yourself, because non of us know for sure?
HabsLoseAgain : Crawford also won a cup with Patrick Roy so would you say he is a good coach or did he just have great players and one of the best goaltenders of alltime?
HabsLoseAgain : Senrt so please give me some reasons why you think Hartley is not the coach the habs need right now. What is it that you do not like about him or his coaching style?
HabsLoseAgain : Well all great coaches had great players playing for them so i guess you you add a a pile of other coaches to that list including Bowan......
Senet1 : Hartley, was he a good coach or did he just have great players and one of the best altime goaltenders of all time. I am not sure that he is the type of coach that this organization needs right now. Unless of course we sign a ton of free agents.
Avatar37 : However, my feelings may completely be wrong, Hartley may turn out to be a good fit.
Avatar37 : I didn't say Hartley was unknown, I said we demoted a good coach in Cunneyworth and now have an unknown quantity because we don't have a coach. I don't have that great a feeling about Hartley, I'd be much more comfortable with Crawford.
HabsLoseAgain : In my opinion i think he might be a good fit in montreal. Oh and he also likes to have a tough team.
HabsLoseAgain : Also this year he coached the ZSC Lions to the swiss championship title.
HabsLoseAgain : lol the so called "unknown" won a cup in 2000-2001 with the colarado avalanch.
HabsLoseAgain : lol Bob Hartley is not an unknown lol.....sheesh.
Senet1 : I think he has until the trading deadline to show us that he deserves to be on this team. If he does not get back on track then he could be simply a 2nd round draft pick to whoever we can trade him to.
Avatar37 : Bourque reminds me of Pouliot, size, skill, and invisible. He needs to get back to playing a physical game and bang people around and maybe he'll start getting some of those garbage goals again. Need to get to the front of the net. I hope he can find his game again.
Avatar37 : We had a good coach in Randy Cunneyworth. Now we have an unknown, with Bob Hartley rumoured to be the front runner. I'd rather have Cunneyworth.
goalie : A player like Rene Bourwue has al the physical attributes of what would be a beter than average player. Hwever, he certainly didn't play that well especially after being in Montreal about three weeks. We NEED players like Rene to play hard AND produce points on a REGULAR BASIS in order for us to be competitive.
Senet1 : MONTREAL – Rene Bourque had a rocky start to his career as a Hab, but he’s planning on using the next four years to make up for it. After arriving in Montreal under less-than-ideal circumstances in January, Bourque spent the following 38 games hoping to find the spark he needed to rekindle his offensive production. Despite flanking Tomas Plekanec on the team’s second line to close out the season, the 30-year-old sniper suddenly found himself firing blanks in his new NHL home.
Senet1 : I think we have to be patient and not expect too much too soon. Let's get a strong management team in place, make a good choices in the draft get a good coach and then see what we need at the free agent market. I will not be too disapointed if we miss the playoffs again next year if it means a long term team success. We have the opportunity to make some major strides over the next two years at the draft table. Then we fill in the holes.
goalie : I certainly agree that we need to get some impact forwards who will sign for 5 years, not for a season then walk away. That's not going to help us.
goalie : I wouldn't trade PK for Ovetchkin no matter what. He is a coach's NIGHTMARE and a poor team player.
Senet1 : I believe he will as we graducally put better players around him and build this team.
Senet1 : Goalie I agree with Avatar. PK is the present and future of this teams defence. I would not even take Staal from Pittsburg unless I had him tied up in a long term contract of a Minimum of 5 years. Also once has to consider the salary difference. Pk is on the move up probably 3M plus for his next contract and then eventually 4-5M if he keeps on improving. He has moved his game up two gears since he came into the league 2 years ago. He now has to move to the next level and I believe he will as w
Avatar37 : pressure playing in Montreal, since he has problems with the expectations in Washington and Montreal isn't any easier. Then again, the media were very easy on Kovalev, so maybe it's a Russian thing? No idea. Anyway, yeah, it would have to be an established star that gives us an immediate drastic upgrade at forward, that's the only way I'd trade PK, because we'd be giving up a potential QB on our blueline for the next decade.