Fatigued Canadiens fall short
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After the intensity of the Calgary/Montreal game on Tuesday you knew the chances of having another action packed intense game were less than likely.
Entering the barren wasteland known as the United Center with it’s bleak lighting and thousands of vacant seats was quite a different atmosphere than a raucous Bell Center. The Habs were done from the start.
A great drive to the net by Havlat early in the game resulted in a goal even though the puck just slid off his stick. The go ahead goal was a clear error by Niinimaa who couldn’t get the puck out up the boards and lost it deep behind the net.
The Canadiens fatigue showed and they were lifeless for most of the game. The thing is, so were the Blackhawks.
Were it not for Khabibulin the Blackhawks probably wouldn’t have won that game. The Hawks have a chance with the Bulin Wall playing the way he can, the way he did in the 04 Lighting cup run.
Next up for the Habs is the Jose Theodore vs David Aebischer grudge match. This should be great, with Brisebois also returning to the Bell Center. Now that’s atmosphere.
Will the fans welcome Theo back or chant his name mockingly? This game is for more than just two points and you know everyone is going to be ready for it.
- Avatar37 : pressure playing in Montreal, since he has problems with the expectations in Washington and Montreal isn't any easier. Then again, the media were very easy on Kovalev, so maybe it's a Russian thing? No idea. Anyway, yeah, it would have to be an established star that gives us an immediate drastic upgrade at forward, that's the only way I'd trade PK, because we'd be giving up a potential QB on our blueline for the next decade.
- Avatar37 : Goalie - Sure, the only player I'd say who is untradeable (meaning I wouldn't trade no matter what) is Carey Price. You build a winning team from the net out, and I don't think there's a better goalie for his age in the NHL than Price, so I wouldn't trade him. Otherwise, every player would be open for offers, but for PK Subban, it would take (for me) an already established star, like Carter or Crosby or Ovechkin. As much as I like Ovechkin, I'm not sure he could handle all the media pre
- goalie : I'm not suggesting at all that we judst dump or get rid of PK. I do however believe that he is a very valued commodity in the NHL adn that the Habs will receive offers for his services. If someone ffers us young, strong, puck handling forwards who can score, I think the Habs have to look at that possible trade.
- Avatar37 : Agreed. It would be a big mistake to trade PK just to move up 2 spots in the draft. PK, Emelin, and Gorges are the bright future of our defense.
- Senet1 : I am with you Avatar, Subban stays, it is not often that you get a stud defenceman who can play 25+ minutes. The mistakes he makes are for the most part not that serious and people forget he is only 23 and been in the league 2 years. He has come a long way in those two years. He has offense, defence and he hits. You cannot bet much better than that. Two more years experience and he has a shot at the Norris. If Markov does anything I hope he teaches PK how to work the PP.
- Avatar37 : «link»
- Avatar37 : go.
- Avatar37 : round exit. Heck, even the year they won the cup we almost took them out in round 1. I believe in the corps of this team, I really think we just need a few tweaks. Adding Larry Robinson to run the defense would be a BIG help, keep Cunneyworth as offensive coach, and get a head coach who can get these guys back on the right path. We need to establish an identity again, a team that won't let itself be pushed around like it was under Martin. A few scrappers on this team and we'll be good to
- Avatar37 : Yeah, the only way I'd trade PK is if we were getting an established star in return, like Carter or Crosby. I don't think we're miles away from competing deep into the playoffs, the NHL has become so competitive because of the salary cap that really there aren't huge differences between the teams. Add into the equation the stupid scoring system (some games worth 2 points, some 3) that the standings don't truly reflect where teams should really be. Look at Boston, cup winners to first rou
- Senet1 : It would have to be something pretty special before I would trade PK. To me he is the #1 building block of our defence. I would trade any other defenceman we have before I would trade PK.
- Senet1 : An improvement in our offense and strengthening our defence. Personally, I do not think we are that far off, five players at best could get us there. One thing that has always been true about the playoffs, Defence wins and you need a strong 3rd and 4th line.
- goalie : I'm more optimistic now about the Habs than I have been for the past three dreadfully long seasons!
- goalie : 2: I think GM Bergevin will make somewhat of a 'blockbuster't rade either before or on the day of the draft adn I believe PK Subban will be in that package. WE have t rememebr we have to give away some talent to get back other talent. No one wants players like Moen to move up in the draft etc.
- goalie : Some thoughts:The more I see the playoffs it becomes even more obvious that we're miles away from being able to 'compete' dep into the playoffs
- Avatar37 : «link»
- Senet1 : Young Subban might also be an option if the Russian goalie is not available. However, to me I would wait another year and attempt to use my draft 2nd round draft picks to improve out forward situation.
- Senet1 : Although Rinne contact is another example of long term at the wrong time. He is 29 years old. A case could be made with Price that double his money now with bonuses if we win the cup, I think that is still allowed in contracts?
- Senet1 : Problem is he is going to want Pekka Rinne money and term. That is closer to 7M. On the other hand, the contract could have step up clauses in it over the 7 years.
- Avatar37 : With Price, I wouldn't blink twice about offering him a 7 year contract now, especially if he'd be willing to give up dollar value for length. 7 years at $5.5 million a year would be just fine in my book.
- Avatar37 : I think the goaltending void in our current system would push me to draft Vasilevski with our second pick, if he was available. He's young and has lots of potential, but is at least 5-6 years away from starting to be ready to play on an NHL roster.
- Senet1 : Long tern contracts are a risk, but if you have a super star not as much. Luongo's contract was long term but signed too late in his career.
- Avatar37 : Senet - Yes, you were clear in your post, my question was directed at goalie. I'm with you in that I'd be willing to sign him to a 7 year contract. I'd be nervous about anything longer, because every single long term goalie contract I can think of turned out to be a disaster for the team signing it.
- Senet1 : I think that Budaj is a better goalie than many give him credit for, is he a Price no but with a tight defence he could be a good goalie. Many teams have average goalies but have great defence and still win. Look at Detroit, for years they have had average goaltending, but won cups. Goalies can get on a roll in the playoffs, look at Huet as an example, he was not really a good goalie but played great in the playoffs, next year he was a wash. Defence makes the goalie a winner, just ask Price.
- Senet1 : Having a young equivalent goalie in the system right now is not important, three years from now it will be, so we have three years to make that kind of move in the draft. I think we have more pressing needs aat the moment.
- Senet1 : Personally, I do not see this as a negative because of Price's age, you wait to draft a goalie of a Patrick Roy or Brodeur some teams wait a life time. To me we have on so why would we want to not play that out for as long as we can. Bottom line is this, regardless, right now you have a stud goalie, you are either going to pay him the money he deserves for not sign him and lose him. There is no middle of the road here.
- goalie : Avatar made a great point. We don't have an NHL or up adn coming NHL goalies in our system. Another great move by Gauthier. Price is sitting very pretty.
- goalie : WEll Price has us by the nads. I guess I'd have to go as far as a 7 year contract due to his play adn his age.
- Senet1 : Luongo is now 33, he has been a good goaltender for a number of years. I would sign Price for 7 years and at age 31 then we deal with UFA at that time. Hopefully, we could provide him with another 5 years at that time. That is my opinion anyway, I would never risk losing him as a UFA at this point in his career to me that would be a very poor management decision. Even a 10 year contract would put him only at 34 years old. If you are going to sign him to long term now is the time.
- Senet1 : If you have a young stud you have to gamble a little and give him a contract that is worthy of his abilities and his potential. It can have escalation clauses or reducing clauses like Kovalchuk's contract.
- Senet1 : Avatar, I thought I was clear Yes I would sign him long term. My previous post said. The problem is if you have a out in the contract after 5 years then the player also has an out after 5 years. So no self respected lawyer would accept a contract that did not have equal escape clauses. So no I would not sign only for 5 years, if Price was 28 years old yes but not a 24. Seven years still only makes him 31 when the contract is over. If you have a young stud you have to gamble a little and give him
- Avatar37 : Cammalleri trade. Given the fact that we have no NHL starting quality goaltenders in the system currently, aren't we held hostage to having to sign Price?
- Avatar37 : There are many bad goalie contracts, just look at Huet. However, your post didn't answer my question as to what you'd do with Price. He's an RFA now, but for argument sake, if he were a UFA, what would you do? If he wanted a 7+ year contract, you know some other team would give him one. Would you risk losing him for nothing because you didn't want to sign a contract over 5 years? And if we lose Price, our goalies are Budaj and Robert Mayer, as we sent Karri Ramo to the Flames in the Cam
- goalie : .. a 5 years contract again based upon the experience he has had AND he likes Bobby Lou!
- goalie : Ditto for Philly, Ther goaltender 'situations' have both become the number 1 story line for both teams, and in Vancouver one could see the exaspiration on Gillis' adn to some extent Vigneault's faces when continously being bombarded by the loooong term contract that the Canucks are stuct with. (Gillis even said last February or so, thank goodness it looks like more than few other teams will be looking for a starting goaltender for 2012-13. He said he would never again do more than a 5 year c
- goalie : I've spent the past four winters in BC thus I am very aware of the Canucks situations. I'd first say I give Gillis adn Vigneault 100% credit for being VERY supportive of Roberto L. even when Corey Schenider has vastly out played him. (I too like Bobby Lou but facts are facts).
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October 19, 2006 at 11:46 am
They’re gonna mock the Paris Hilton out of him! I’m just pissed that I’m gonna miss the game because I’m gonna be at a wedding.
Either way, last night was a decent effort considering how hard the night before was. Now we just need to get ready for Saturday night; because like Habs Blog said, ‘This game is for more than just two points’ and this opportunity isn’t going to come along very often.
October 19, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Souray needs to learn how to handle the puck in his own end, the same with Ninnymom….talk about the Habs goalie feeling like the Habs defense is just another line of the offense…the defense has to do better than passing the puck to the other teams’ wingers…honestly. Montreal needs size, maybe a trade package of Souray and Huet can net the Habs with a decent defenseman perhaps….what a contrast in style, Huet with moving out of the way so the puck can go in, and Abby having to put up with Souray and Ninnyma helping the other team…hello, where is the Habs defense???more like an insurgency….maybe it is time to bring back the rookies, they probably have a better work ethic….
October 19, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Would’nt it be ironic is Brisebois scores and Theo gets an assist?!
But thats too crazy – i predict 4-2 victory with 2 Higgins goals.
October 19, 2006 at 3:29 pm
Josh TH hit hit the nail on the head. Souray is a defensive liability in our end. He is slow and awkward ans has been on the ice for alot of 5 on 5 goals. Wht do we play him on the PK? He is fantastic on the PP but he plays too much at even strength and the play late in close games. Will Carbo start to re-allocate the ice time based on situation instead of reputation. For all you Dandy trashers, this guy plays strong defensive hockey, eats up minutes and keeps his mouth shut and is well respected by his teammates. He will be missed. He never gets any PP time for some reason and without it you can’t get points. Last he was #2 +/- defensman and played 82 games and was once of the best players in the playoffs. This coaching staff heeds to be less rigid in theri pairings and ice allocation. What has Markov done this year?
October 19, 2006 at 3:46 pm
You all seem to be persuaded by the final result that Montreal played really crappy. However, we completely outplayed the other team, especially in the second period. We should have been up 3 or 4 – 1 by the end of the second. The pucks just didn’t go in and Khabibulin had a great night.
This loss is like recieving a bad beat in poker after outplaying your opponent. Chicago got lucky after being outplayed, as simple as that.
October 19, 2006 at 3:55 pm
as far as I’m cocerned, we have no defence. Souray? pathetic! Maybe he can shoot the puck from the blueline, and score some goals from there, but that’s about it. he is a total liability on defence. also he’s very, very slow. The only thing he’s great at, is giving up the puck to the opposition. he keeps costing us goals as a result of bad giveaways. Maybe he’s colorblind, because he thinks the opposition’s jersey is red too! also, we don’t have a 2nd line. Carbo needs to shake up the lines; we can’t have only 1 line scoring, and the other lines doing nothing. For the most part, kovalev and Samsonov are invisible. Put Latendresse on the 2nd line, and move Samsonov to the 3rd line. I have a bad feeling in my gut, that tells me Samsonov will be last year’s version of BONK! in other words, 0 GOALS! I can’t see him scoring goals; he just doesn’t seem to fit in. Why is that?I read where Nedved and perreault(centers), are still available. Go for it! Plekanec doesn’t have the talent to score goals, and he shouldn’t be on the 2nd line. Go get Nedved or Perreault for that line. Move Plekanec to the 3rd line, with Johnson and Samsonov. I think this will be a long year defensively for us! Also, WE ARE TAKING WAY TOO MANY PENALTIES! We are spending half the game in the penalty box. That can’t continue! It shows a lack of DISCIPLINE! It’s the coach’s fault. They must teach the players control and restraint. If we were better defensively, these lapses in judgement would never happen! MAKE CHANGES! or suffer the consequences!
October 19, 2006 at 4:55 pm
I agree our defense is weak…but everyone picks on Souray…what about Rivet. Leave Souray alone. He gets smoked alot…I don’t like him ont he ice at the end of the game. But common Rivet is just as bad. Sure he is our ironman. But he gets beat just as easy if not easier than Souray. Atleast Souray is on the receiving end of a sweet move when he is beat…Rivet just gets flown by with speed. What was he doing when Iginla got sent on a breakaway shorthanded. His shot gets blocked..he sees Iggie break for center and he stands there. Anyway as I said atleast Souray is scoring. He’s a defensive liability but he’s tough..he was the first to Downey’s aid after the hit and we have all seen him crank his wrist and let off a blistering shot. Reduce his time…put him mostly on the PP…keep him on the bench for all i care or down the hallway warming up his arm and wrists…then unleash the fury on the PP. But honestly what has Rivet done???
October 19, 2006 at 5:23 pm
True. Pick your poison. Rivet is no better or worse than Souray. and let’s not forget Streit! Oh my God! Collectively, they’re like swiss cheese! So many holes. And all the penalties? I think Ketchup flows out of the bottle faster than Souray can skate! Pathetic!
October 19, 2006 at 5:58 pm
So this is how people react after only the 1st regulation loss of the season?!?! Why is everyone so pesimistic all of a sudden? ‘had a gut feeling’!?!? easy to say things like that after a loss i guess.
So you can look at this two ways:
1) We’re ranked second in the division behind Buffalo (nothing to be ashamed of considering we’ve given them the best run for their money thus far); resultingly 4th in the conference. The argument for this is that it’s still early in the season so this doesn’t really count.
OR in that case
2) Our D needs some work and blah blah blah BUT since it’s early in the season no need to have a panic attack since there’s lots of opportunity to improve and get problems worked out.
As for Sourray, as far as I can tell he’s been more of an asset than a liability…3 goals and 2 assists in 6 games. I do agree though that Carbs should consider remanaging some lines. Maybe playing him less is a good idea and obviously play him on the PP (I think everyone could agree on that.)
October 19, 2006 at 6:16 pm
Wow, after ONE regulatoin loss it seems as though everybody with the ecxeption of fan 3 is pounding on the big red button the says PANIC.
So our defence is bad? Chicago scored 2 goals?? Big freakin deal, and the second one was a Ninnamaa giveaway. Rivet and Souray have outplayed Markov to this point and everyone slags on Rivet just because Stillman’s series winner went off of his stick. Rivet is the second best leader on this team and just as good as Jason Smith, Steve Staios, Willie Mitchell, an overated and overpayed Jay McKee and Mattias Norstrom. Is he the most talented guy? no. But guess what. The 70′s are over folks. The Habs will NEVER have a team completely stacked with skill guys. The Oilers showed how far you get with a lot of grit and heart guys, Rivet is that guy.
As for Souray, he’s just as good as Brad Stuart, Lubamir Vishnovski, Sergei Gonchar or John-Micheal Liles. He does have defensive lapses but so what? Everyone does. Would you rather have Philly’s defence??
The way the Bulin Wall was playing last night the Habs wouldn’t have one anyway. And Andrei Markov has been their worst defenceman so far.
And Gainey is not going to make any Panic trades when his team has gotten points in 5 of their six games and are sitting fourth in the conference. Souray isn’t going anywhere till at least the trade deadline and that’s only if the Habs are out of it, Rivet is almost guarranteed to get re-signed because Carbonneau and Gainey have shown that, with Downey, Begin and Murray, they’re going to keep their meat and potatoes players.
And with Downey out, he’s even considering retirement apparently, Latendresse is stapled to the fourth line. The only players the might consider switching are Sammy and Perezhogin. Plekanec isn’t used to playing on the second line yet and needs time to adapt, not everyone is a Chris Higgins who can just turn it on when put with talented line mates and I still believ and always will the Kovalev is heartless and needs to go.
Abby is now the #1 guy.
October 19, 2006 at 7:30 pm
Cmon guys, don’t be that pessimist.
We have a great team this year if you compare to others years, not a team to win the stanley cup now, but it’s always improving.
Our defense is not our force for sure. (Where is our force btw lol). But do not forgot we don’t have Bouillon, big part of last year defense, and Dandeneault wasn’t there yesterday. So you have to give times to others, that mean Souray get more ice time than he should probably. For the one who said he cost us more than he give to us, I am not sure about that. Would we have won against Calgary without him ? He doesn’t play THAT bad in defense. Yes he can get beaten more easily 1 on 1 than some other defense man and sometimes make big mistakes but there are others who make more little mistakes. For Niinima, he still need some time for adjustment, but I hope he get his play like he already did some years ago.
My concern is with Samsonov and Kovalev. These guys are not able to play together or or not able to play at all. They need to do something or it’s gonna be a long year for them but for us too. I am not sure it was a good idea to exchange Ribeiro (at least he was scoring with them, not like plekanec).
The third line is playing crazy. I really love these guys. Bonk and Johnson are crazy in penalty killing and against the big lines. As for Latendresse, he play on the 4th line, doesn’t have lot of Ice time and he need time now. He is not trying to play great like he can, but not looking bad so let’s see. I just hope we don’t try to do like we do so many times with other french guy, some power forwards in juniors became defensive guy in nhl
.
October 19, 2006 at 8:23 pm
I agree with the last few comments pretty much! There are some areas that need addressing but I think we have a pretty entertaining team thus far! It has been a long time since we have had as much fire power as we are able to ice right now, and we have a fast team which is moving with the times. Our defence has been an area of concern but it is also an area right now where injuries have taken there toll. If WE have the puck THEY can’t score. I don’t think we have been outshot by anyone yet and we are starting to get scoring from different players!!! We have two starting goalies! The season is early!
GO HABS!!!!!!!!!
October 19, 2006 at 9:11 pm
scoring from different players? what games have you been watching? only 1 line is scoring! That’s it! that’s not enough!When only 1 line is producing, it’s real easy for the opposition. just key on that 1 line, and poof! no scoring at all.
October 19, 2006 at 9:36 pm
Souray, Rivet and Streit???? What about Markov’s imitation of Breeze-by on Havlat’s goal in the first two minutes of the game? Was he tired already or did he just plain forget that the game was, in fact, ongoing? Optomism aside; the Hab’s defence is plain, god awful! I never really appreciated how important Bouillon was to this team’s defence last year. Oh well, at least having Brisebois back in town on Saturday will remind us about how bad things can possibly get. We better hope that Dandenault and Bouillon have a speedy recovery.
October 19, 2006 at 9:55 pm
For the person who said the Habs haven’t been outshot yet. Check your stats again. Game 1 – shots 37 to 27 in favor of Buffalo. Game 2 – shots 38 to 33 in favor of Toronto. Game 3 – shots 28 to 23 in favor of Philadelphia. Game 4 – shots 27 to 25 in favor of Ottawa. That they managed to win games 2 and 3 had more to do with Aebischer than anything else. Don’t kid yourselves that the Canadiens are as good as their record currently indicates. Aebischer needs a little help out there from the D. If Markov is going to let a player like Havlat skate right by without even giving him a look maybe he should communicate that fact to Aebischer so the goalie can go out and check the oncoming player himself.
October 19, 2006 at 10:02 pm
Fan, check out the individual stats! i know we have alot of players capable of more but I do believe we are getting points from more than one line. What have we played seven games ? If only one line is scoring then why as you say haven’t they been shut down? Take a deep breathe fan and maybe go have some supper! GO HABS!!!
October 19, 2006 at 10:50 pm
Wow i would hate to see if we started the season 0 in 5.And people wonder why no one wants to play in montreal.Relax guys
October 19, 2006 at 11:41 pm
Pactum I could not have said it better….relax people take a bloody pill and get over the short comings of this team. Trust me when I tell you that they are like the other 29 teams in the league….they all have some weaknesses and even if the Habs have a great season they could still lose 25-30 games this year. ****…one loss and you would think that the world is falling apart. Get over it!
October 20, 2006 at 10:23 am
Lots of good solid posts in the last 9. I fully agree with Habs#1 and the others: let’s take it easy. Many adjustments to make, as for most teams, but the start has been by and large positive.
Souray remains an overall plus and Kovalev remains a late starter, but Higgins and Koivu have been great; Abby’s risen to the challenge. I’m just as worried as everyone about the amazing invisible Samsonov and trust he will be able to turn it on during the next 5-10 games. Otherwise he’ll have a lot more pessimists to deal with!
Let’s channel the emotion and beat Theo Saturday!!
October 20, 2006 at 11:52 am
I for one, am really happy to the start of this season. I have to agree that our defence is suspect, but we are killing penaties and in the stats, anyway, we are among the leauges best defensively.
Some other thoughts……
Habs fans were screaming for Bob to make some deals for this year…and everyone was thrilled with the pick-up of Samsonov.I was not one of those people…I had a feeling he would be a bust…the only hope was that he and kovy would click…….has not happened. I would trade kovy and sammy for a big center and a good defenceman, but I am not a GM…and Bob rules…I have faith..he will not panick, nor has the need to this early…we have some cap space..we have a good solid team so far….maybe Philly is willing to strike a deal soon!!
I am a die hard Habs fan and some of these posts start to sound like leaf fans…want results now by the supposed “big trade”. I think you have to build a team…in todays NHL the days of winning 4-5 cups in a row is gone, never gonna happen again..get use to it and enjoy the best team we have had in a number of years
October 20, 2006 at 10:05 pm
The point is, there is no offensive heart here. Samsonov was a liability to Edmonton and with his penalties all but single-handedly destroyed Edmonton’s chances….why do you think they were so eager to let him go?
Apart from the occasional rush by a single Canadien, we don’t have an offensive plan, all we hope for is the puck will find its own way into the net…heck it’s like the Habs offensive line doesn’t play as a team most times and wait for the best time to practice passing, hello Carbo…a game is not practice, you cannot tell your offenisvie lines to pass and play like its a practice…eventually they will have to dig deep into the past and remember the Rocket, the way he would blitz the net, follow through on shots, chase the rebound and shoot for the net, not in the general direction of the net….
The offense and the defense are being bullied by the bigger NHL…its like Carbo and Gainey don’t want to hire players who are taller than they are…talk about being insecure perhaps….who knows.
What is wrong with being an offensive team while having the leagues’ best penalty kill? You only get that with paying for a big name, big time, expensive quality player, you get what you pay for….
October 20, 2006 at 11:50 pm
Kevin Lowe tried hard to resign Samsonov. The morning he was too sign the dotted line with the Habs, the oilers made one last push offering a three year deal close to 3.5 per. ALso the oilers had absolute no interest in Sykora who in all fairness did struggle the last two NHL seasons but after losing Sammy Lowe felt they had to add a top 2 line player although did not want to give Sykora close to what he received. Kevin Lowe was also quoted saying he was upset Sammy left cause he was told my his agent when first being traded that he woud give the oil the first chance to resign him. Although you may have a good point abou this play so far you must at least give correct facts for anyone to respect your opinion.
October 20, 2006 at 11:55 pm
We lose one game and everyone goes nuts. IS this a site for the media? But one glooming negative is Craig Rivet. It is pretty obvious he cannot contribute enough to this squad to keep his salary. At least Souray has many positives(amazing shot,scares the **** outta everyone, leader, good with the media, proven all star) to go with his flat feet.